Frank Herbert's Dune 7

Frank Herbert planned to write seventh Dune book. It is said Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune are based on his notes. Those books don’t feel like they are in same universe. Just in universe with similar characters where similar events happened. This is speculation based on Frank Herbert’s Dune books, Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune. I originally planned to add this to Sandworms of Dune review but it got so long even without this. I haven’t seen Frank Herbert’s plans. This is just what I feel was planned.

I assume massive number of ghoulas didn’t come from Frank Herbert because it breaks to rules of the world. Thinking Machines felt like it was in Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune because Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson wrote book series about them earlier. I see no reason why the threat had to be thinking machines. What God Emperor made mankind do during his reign didn’t prepare mankind for thinking machine’s invasion. It prepared mankind against the plague. We have seen measures against pandemic in 2020 and 2021. God Emperors golden path looked quite similar. No travel and small communities.

Plague was part of Hunters and Sandworms. It fits to Frank Herbert’s environmental message of Dune books. People from scattering got it and they come back because of plague not because of thinking machines. To me that sounds much more like Frank Herbert than what we got.

Face Dancers were built as threat in Frank Herbert’s books. In Hunters and Sandworms they worked for thinking machines but it wasn’t necessary. They could have done almost all they did in those books on their own. I think that was the plan. Plague and Face Dancer felt like proper challenge when they hit same time. Without deus ex machina from thinking machines there should have been other solution to defeat them.

Honored Matres were probably closest to Frank Herbert’s plan in Hunters and Sandworms. They felt most like Frank Herbert in those books. Changing them escaping from plague and/or Face Dancers wouldn’t have changed much. You could have had same history and big moments for them.

Ithaca’s crew would probably had met Handles. I assume worms on ship were supposed to be the solution to detect Face Dancers. They detected one which helped them detect other saboteur. Duncan Idaho was probably planned to be part of the solution. Probably not similar super being as in Sandworms.

If you took away thinking machines and ghoulas of first books, story would have fitted in one book. This would have cut down most of the stupidity of Hunters and Sandworms. It would also have had all the good parts.

Sandworms of Dune

What is proper response when someone questions of your stupid nonsense? Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson think making nonsense more stupid. I questioned two decisions Hunters of Dune made. I am pretty sure I am not the first one because those were two biggest issues. Well. In Sandworms of Dune they bring back characters from prequel books. At least they try and tell they could try again. Just to show there are no longer any rules or restrictions for Brian and Kevin. Nothing matters any more. One character question the other issue and book says it won’t tell how that is possible. Why tell new rules? It would require more work. Easier to just make stuff up.

Spoilers because I don’t care any more. You know the most iconic part of Frank Herbert’s book. The sandworms who were hurt by water. SEEWURMS!!!! SEEWURMS WITH GIGAMEGASUPERSPICE!!!! Yeah. Those seaworms on cover. Some guy modified worms’ genetics and it worked. That is not only worm related stupidity. One character goes inside worms mouth to meditate and gets visions. At the end we learn sandworms can see the future now. Yeah. Anything goes. No rules anymore.

Whole ghoula subplot is just fanfiction waste of time. They just brought half of characters of first book to play with Brian’s dad’s toys. Don’t remember ghoulas to be destined to be their previous versions or becoming them after gaining back the memories. That is no longer the case. These are almost the same persons as their originals. Reason for this is to give almost everyone happy ending. Original versions had sad endings but their ghoulas get happy ending. It is so obvious you expect it to happen and then it happens. You just wait it to happen. When people say this is fan fiction this is one of the reasons.

Hunters of Dune had few interesting moments. I assume it was the one based on Frank Herbert’s notes. This doesn’t have those moments and it is full of fan fiction. Someone else could have made the twists and big moments interesting. After book told it doesn’t care about consistent world it was hard to get invested. Refugee ship Ithaca made “dangerous” jumps all the time without any problems. Ship had saboteur but it felt more like making book longer without advancing the story. Like anything could happen to fan fiction characters. All subplots are one thing happening after another without anything major changing. Chapterhouse planet was ravaged by deadly plague. Didn’t feel like it changed that much. Did they use uncredited ghost writer for better parts of Hunters of Dune? Don’t understand how this could be this much worse if it was written by same people.

You will be really disappointed if you got Hunters of Dune and this to get conclusion to Frank Herbert’s books. There was some conclusion in Hunters but this is almost all fan fiction and conclusion to prequel books. There are much more references to first book than any other Frank Herbert’s book. Like that is only important Frank Herbert book. But it is not more important than prequel books. How stupid it would be if Frank Herbert’s books are concluded by characters of his first books and characters from prequel books? Surely that was Frank Herbert’s plan. Like this book is based on his notes.

Leto II commands sandworms against enemy to save the day. Weren’t there a girl in Frank Herbert’s last two books. She was like a big deal in those books. But no. She can’t save the day. It has to be someone else. Someone like God Emperor himself. Because nobody but characters from first books or prequels can be important. And she is woman. Women can’t save the day. If the worms attacking was in Frank Herbert’s notes I am pretty sure it wasn’t Leto II commanding them. Why would book said to be sequel to Frank Herbert’s last books give important moments to characters of those books?

There were good and evil Paul ghoulas. Evil one gives deadly wound to good one. Never once I thought good Paul would die because this is stupid fan fiction. Only question was how would good Paul survive. He fixes his wounds by thinking about them and pulling his blood back into his veins. That is new reverend mother superpower. I know they had similar superpowers but after this it is wonder any of them was killed as easily as they were during this book series. Why they just didn’t fix their body if it was this easy? It is easier to just make stuff up than working to keep your (or your dad’s) world consistent.

How Face Dancers were beaten you ask? One Face Dancer had long evil guy monologue. Leader of thinking machines tells him it had installed fail safe to Face Dancers. Then Leader send telepathic signal all over the universe and kills all Face Dancers. When someone says stay away from Brian Herbert’s and Kevin J. Anderson’s books you should believe them. These are almost complete waste of your time and insults to your intelligence.

Thinking machines original leader was called Omnius. How it was beaten you ask? There was god like being from prequel books who had monologue and then Omnius just disappear with all of its backups or something like that. This was so insanely stupid my brain wants to forget it already.

Duncan Idaho becomes ultimate Kwisatz Haderach after others tell him he is ultimate Kwisatz Haderach. Who needs spice when you can just tell a guy he is ultimate Kwisatz Haderach. Evil Paul ghoula had become regular or little bit better than regular Kwisatz Haderach after taking ultraspice. In this book Kwisatz Haderach is bridge between humans and robots. I think it was something else in Frank Herbert’s books. Thinking machines were reason why there wasn’t computers in Dune’s world. Because Brian and Kevin wrote book series about war against thinking machines, ending of Dune saga is about thinking machines.

I really don’t know if everything ends well ending is what Dune saga should. I understand there is win at the end. This ending lasts ages and give almost everyone happy end. Alia ghoula dying seems to be only sad part. Humans and thinking machines live happily ever after. Surviving characters (almost everyone) get some sort of resolution. Sandworms survived in Arrakis. Almost only thing left ruined is Dune’s lore.

I knew some Dune fans don’t consider Brian’s and Kevin’s books as canon. I didn’t expect these to be nonsense like this. It is not that their writing style is different than Frank’s. It is not writing style if you don’t care about the lore or consistency of the world. This book’s ending was deus ex machina after deus ex machina. I didn’t mention every stupidity. There was much more. I only mentioned most annoying ones.

Hunters of Dune

It is understatement to say Brian Herbert’s and Kevin J. Anderson’s books have polarized Dune fans. You can find really hateful reviews of them where ever people can review books. This is not one of those reviews but I can see where that hate comes from. This book was quite frustrating because some parts of it were good with some really good moments but it is ruined by some incredible stupid choices. You can enjoy the book if you can forget or look past those stupid choices. It is really frustrating because those good parts would have made this fourth or fifth best Dune book. It wouldn’t have been close to Frank Herbert’s best books but not all his books are close to his best books.

I will go to little bit to spoiler territory to discuss some of the bad choices. Frank Herbert’s books brought two characters back to life. Other characters had good reasons to bring those characters back. It made sense. This book brings back almost half of the first book’s characters. If you take the world seriously and start to think why and how they could bring those characters back it doesn’t make any sense. We are talking about characters who died thousands of years ago. They need genetic material to bring them back and we should assume they have genetic material after all these years for all of these characters who happen to be important characters in first books. Bringing back Paul and Leto II could make some sense because they could see the future. They are not only ones brought back.

In Frank Herbert’s books some characters got memories of their ancestors when they used spice. It was kind of awakened genetic memory. Same with ghoulas after they learned how make them remember their previous lives. It doesn’t work that way anymore. Concept that made sense was thrown away because one character brought back to life had to pay for original version’s sins. They thought they were clever by having moment earlier where one character had discussion with ancient person who had no surviving children. Like that earlier moment was enough to justify extremely stupid payoff for earlier books.

I can see why some people hate these books with passion. For that reason I won’t be listening other Brian Herbert’s and Kevin J. Anderson’s books than this and Sandworms of Dune which are some what based on Frank Herbert’s notes. This one makes Chapterhouse Dune better not only by being worse but by telling origin of Honored Matres and what happened to them. Then book forgets that history from time to time and not use it in any meaningful way except in one scene but I assume that scene was from Frank Herbert’s notes.

Book also ruins earlier Frank Herbert books by referencing prequel books which themselves ruin the lore. I listened podcast discussing Dune prequels to know what is there. Podcast guys liked those books. They didn’t remember Frank Herbert’s Dune books like someone who just binged through them. They couldn’t pick the inconsistencies the books brought to lore. I won’t be listening those books. These two books are more than enough of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson and I know enough to stay away from their other books.

I can’t recommend this but it is not as bad as some reviews say it is. There are few moments which feel coming from Frank Herbert but by the end book feels something different. It starts to build more upon Brian Herbert’s and Kevin J. Anderson’s other books in series. As such I can’t say this is conclusion to Frank Herbert’s books.

Chapterhouse Dune

I listened audiobook which some reviewers have had issues with. Particularly with one of its narrators. I don’t think narrator was the only issue. Part of the problem was what she had to read. The problem is Honored Matres parts of the book. Narrator’s way to read these parts doesn’t help but I don’t know how she should have read them to make them work. She has selected one way to read those parts and to be honest I don’t think it is wrong way. Honored Matres are presented as impulsive and annoying. They are written that way. That is the real issue. They don’t feel real like other characters of Dune saga.

Honored Matres is not the only problem. Chapterhouse Dune takes what was bad in Heretics of Dune and don’t have good parts of that book. Heretics of Dune didn’t seem to be going anywhere until confusing ending. But at least it had interesting scenes. I seriously thought about checking somewhere how this ends to know if I should keep listening it. I didn’t do it.

Dune inspired Star Wars a lot. I think Frank Herbert was writing God Emperor of Dune when Star Wars was released. I don’t think it had Star Wars influences. Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune have Star Wars influences and it is not benefitting them. Planets are destroyed in this book like Herbert wants to show something to George Lucas. That is part of Honored Matres issue. Other characters had some point in what they did. For Honored Matres it is being clear villain until…

…book is about to reveal something big but that leads to nothing. Frank Herbert died before he could write seventh book. If Heretics of Dune didn’t have few good moments and it didn’t expand lore as much as it did I would say God Emperor of Dune is good place to stop reading or listening Dune saga. Chapterhouse Dune is even bigger let down than Dune Messiah. Dune Messiah leads to Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. Chapterhouse Dune leads to two books known as Dune 7 not written by Frank Herbert.

It wasn’t my plan to get into Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson books but I am little bit curious to see how this ends. Even if is not exactly how Frank Herbert planned it. I heard this would end in cliffhanger but I don’t think ending is that big cliffhanger. It is just not they lived happily ever after end but hint there might be something big coming.

Heretics of Dune

After two of my favorite Dune books comes Heretics of Dune. You don’t need to know too much of Dune lore to enjoy first four books. Heretics of Dune feel like you need deep knowledge of the lore to fully enjoy it. Dune is the first book with world building. Dune Messiah continues Paul’s story. Children of Dune continues soon after Dune Messiah. Lot of time passed between Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune but not too much had happened and God Emperor of Dune had limited set of characters with Leto II who was introduced in Children of Dune. Most importantly everything revolved around House Atreides.

Heretics of Dune happen fifteen hundred years after God Emperor of Dune. World is quite different from what is was before. There is no House Atreides. There has been scattering which introduced new players to the game. Book follows different factions as they try to gain upper hand. It would help to know all different factions when you start the book. It assumes you know them to some extent. I don’t know where you can learn what you need to know without spoilers. If you try to find out about the lore books you haven’t read will be spoiled.

I didn’t get the main story arc like there wasn’t one. In the end it all comes together. Closest thing to main story arc is getting two kids together after they are properly trained. Ending is pretty confusing but I think they got into same space ship at the end. Not sure about it though. I am not sure if I should listen last few chapters again to understand what really happened. I rather continue to next book and return to this later after learning the lore better.

Heretics of Dune is weird. It has really good chapters but at least I had problems connecting chapters together on first listening. It is lot of world building with little story arc running through it. I wasn’t as disappointed with it as I was with Dune Messiah. It has few of the best moments in Dune saga. I am sure I will get more out of it next time when I know more about Dune lore.

God Emperor of Dune

I think this is my favorite Dune book so far. I have to listen all these again to be sure. This was the one I wanted to listen. It is much like Dune Messiah except it is good. Like Dune Messiah God Emperor of Dune shows giving someone ultimate power might not be such a good for the subjects. Dune books are good at showing how each character think they have good reasons doing what they are doing. I don’t know if later books show God Emperor was actually correct doing what he did. Frank Herbert’s books might not get there.

I criticized Dune Messiah for having very little religion in it. I can’t say same about this book. Children of Dune added more religion. God Emperor of Dune feels like being in religious cult. Cult that controls the world thanks to it stockpile of important resource. Earlier Dune was only source of spice. Now there are no sandworms and no new spice. God Emperor having remining spice have control.

Travel to other planets is restricted but it won’t play as big part as I expected. They don’t travel but it feels like people come and go from Arrakis. Normal people can’t do that but it doesn’t seem to be problem for important people. If there is no new spice I would expect space travel to be more restricted than it seems to be. Alternative ways to travel are investigated but there is no alternative during the events of the book.

I knew something about second, third and fourth book before listening them. Not much but little. Next will be one don’t know nothing about before listening it. Same with the sixth book.